KARMA

KARMA Psychointegration Session 31/Oct/2007 By Jorge Raul Olguin, With the participation of Manuel M.  Jorge Olguin: About karma: we gave the example of a circumstance we lived or a certain experience we went through, which is maybe caused by a karmic lesson that has to be learned, and if we learn the lesson, and my answer is: yes and no, because it depends on the person who lives that experience, I know many people who have left this physical plane with more karma than what they had brought, there is a specific case of a person who is a swindler, who lives intentionally deceiving people, knowing the needs of a person, ripping off one and another and this has happened right here where I am, in Buenos Aires, people who had a mutual account with another person and obviously when there is a mutual account, the two people are acting in good faith with each other and obviously it is a matter of trust, when one of the two withdraws money for his own entertainment, to satisfy his needs, obviously he is abusing of the good faith of the other person and he has not learned any lesson, on the contrary, he carries more karma. Manuel : Yes, the one who scammed, but what about the victim, the one who was deceived; that person is acting in good faith putting his trust and he was betrayed in that way. Does he have something to learn in that situation? Jorge Olguin: Probably yes, looking the situation through the eyes of the person who was deceived, he will say: - Life taught me to distrust everyone, everybody deceives. Let’s say that it’s a very expensive learning, so to speak Isn’t it? However, it is still a learning process. First, let's start from the premise that karma is not a fault to pay, but a lesson to learn. Returning to the case of the mutual account, the one who scammed and emptied the account, obviously he is a person who, in this life, is very difficult he understands he is doing something wrong, or if he does, his own ego is justifying the situation by saying: "Well in the end of the day I had to pay my debts, if I didn’t pay my debt my life was at risk," Who knows what he did... Manuel : Sure, the end justifies the means... more or less Jorge Olguin: Actually it doesn’t have to be always like that, no, not always the end justifies the means in cases where, for instance, I commit a hostile act with a child by injecting him a vaccine, I know that this vaccine is going to protect him against future diseases. The child could feel invaded by a needle in his arm, and I cannot explain to a child that I’m doing it for his own good because the child is not capable to understand yet, then in this case, the end justifies the means, but not in all cases, because we would be deceiving ourselves or being naive. Returning to the topic, the person who was scammed or ripped off and damaged, evidently is going to learn and try not to be so gullible and protect himself better. There is a saying of mine that has nothing to do with my esoteric studies, I have it from the twenty years in this lifetime I say: "It fits to all" it’s a proverb, which means that even if you have more experience and protect yourself, if it has to happen, it will happen, it's like the person who says: "Oh! I have experience with women "and that pseudo macho forgets that every woman is different from the other, he sees only a sexual function: -Oh! But you don’t know the experience I have; I have had many women in my life and lovers... And maybe you find a person who is quite different from the rest, as for manners and tastes, and it’s logical that this happens! Because there is no person equal to the other, I'm not talking about better or worse, because a macho competes against other men, and if this ‘macho’ suddenly finds a partner who had a previous love story in her life. They are so stupid and their low self-esteem makes them say: - Was he better? Did he do it different? How was he? Let's say that somehow, it's like they torture themselves trying to compete against a ghost from the past, who is no longer there, when in fact it should not happen like that, one is like no one else, they either accept or reject us, we accept or decline, but it’s not a race. First, it’s demeaning to both parties, for one is denigrating to compete against a ghost from the past, because he is competing against someone who is not there, and the only thing that he is making is to dig all the garbage, and if we compare the current person with another person, in this case we are comparing a person with another person, it’s degrading to the other person, because if we have doubts about our love, our affection, we're not a couple, period; that is right, anyway I do not want to leave the topic. I know very little with all that I know, the philosopher said: "I only know that I know nothing" and it's true, knowing the details about karma, lessons to learn, perhaps the person who was injured, cheated, was pushed to another life, he/she managed to move ahead like a buoy at sea; that person maybe managed to change his/her life and that scam made him/her find a better life and he/she learned to fight through adversity, perhaps learning about karma, is not being suspicious of everybody, perhaps that person had to learn to be hard and excel in adversity in spite of being cheated, deceived, hurt or whatever ." Manuel : Nurturing the spiritual strength while facing a sudden misfortune Jorge Olguin: Totally! I would say that it’s a karmic lesson, for that reason I say, there is no single factor and there is no single outcome, I'm speaking now as a mathematician, it is true that there is not a single outcome here and the teachings can be many, it may be a way to distrust so that the person doesn’t be naive, because there are people that if you give them the hand they take the arm, and well I'm a different person, if they give me a hand I take the finger, so I earn his trust step by step, I don’t take it immediately or on purpose, but... sometimes putting some distance until one feels safe it doesn’t stop being a karmic lesson, and we are talking about a karmic lesson that has to do with cheating or scamming like many other things, as it may be that I had an accident or I went through a surgery, which is very common in these days. What did I learn from these experiences? I learned nothing, surely I learned that dear people is with me, surely I learned that those who really love me don’t disappear, don’t abandon me and they are there to comfort me, when I talk about me I am speaking in the first person, but I'm speaking in general as if it were an example for everybody. Manuel : Yes, I understand Jorge Olguin: And somehow it’s a learning process, as we are used to say in Argentina, ‘know the people you are dealing with’, I don’t kwon how they say it in other countries, but I think you understand. Manuel: Yes, I know that saying... Jorge Olguin: Then, karmic lessons are many and varied, but one always has to look for a teaching, it's about cramming a teaching, sometimes a teaching is sought by using an electron microscope and there it is, like a giant sequoia of 200 meters and we are looking for it using a microscope, because we don’t learn to see the teaching... But generally it’s like that. Manuel: Yes, when one goes through an experience that leaves something very painful, it takes time, and sometimes one does not understand the teaching or the experience left behind. Jorge Olguin: Let's see, in some cases where there is a relationship problem, a divorce, I humbly could take from my point of view because I had a friend, Alexander, who said: "Every person is a world" Then, as long as one does not immerse in that world, one does not deepen, but looks from above, then these were wise words from Alexander, without being esoteric, for that reason I say : I humbly believe that it has to do with gaining experience, positive or negative but somehow gaining experience Manuel: …Or to see an experience from different angles. Jorge Olguin: Yes, totally, from different angles, and I'll say one thing too about the role of victim that other people play to us. We usually learn much more from those people who harm us or those who play a role of victim in order to manipulate us. This does not mean that we give them a prize to those people who taught us, because those people, although they were an instrument, they were quite hostile towards us, but overall we learn more from the people who have hurt us, now I’ll speak as Jorge Olguin in first person, I have learned a lot more from people who have played a role of victim than from teachers I had in my early days in this life, much more! Manuel: Learning should be more intensive, but one learns more intensively from painful experiences. Jorge Olguin: The thing you said earlier about karma, not everyone learns the karmic lesson, some people do not learn it at all, there are some people who were cheated or deceived and they play a role of victim: -Poor me, I cannot believe what they have done to me! God is to blame! And blah blah blah They keep on living on that role of victim... Manuel: They cannot get out of it... Jorge Olguin: They remain numbed into that role, they wither in that role and they cannot get out from there, then, they didn’t learn the karmic lesson. Do you understand? Well, the same happens to the people who play the role of victim with us or the people who attack us in a relationship, friendship or whatever. There are people who do not take responsibility because we all have a responsibility when we fail, sometimes due to a bad choice, sometimes because we don’t know when to say "No" on time and then they also start with the role of victim: - Oh! Now I have to go to my house, my wife is going to make my life miserable again and I have to deal with her... Then, the person is copying that behavior, waiting what will happen within 10 minutes, because he is playing the same role of victim, waiting for her wife to play the victim and reply: -Oh! But I have misbehaved with her… However, the person is blocking himself, doing the same thing and then he doesn’t learn from the abuse or the role of victim from his partner, not even from the scam he suffered, because "HIS EGO" does not let him learn, then this person has to depersonalize and find the moment; that person who was cheated because he trusted in the other person and others deceived him, if that person is noble in spirit and does not play the role of victim, first he will feel miserable, but within that same unhappy feeling, his spirit at that time will reveal itself, he will surely use a positive ego and he will say: - No, I cannot allow myself to fall apart like this, because I have responsibilities and I'll move on and succeed. And then he learns and moves ahead and he has a thrust that he certainly did not have before being deceived. Manuel: So there is like a paradoxical effect, something like a "boomerang" effect right? Jorge Olguin: Yes, the same thing happens when people play the role of victim for years and we learn to see the person from afar and try to understand, not to endorse the behavior - I do not say that - to understand the person who is playing the role of victim, because that person has multiple roles of ego: - Do you think this is fair? Oh sure! If something happens to me, the blame will be yours because you are not going to be here… Or she will be more aggressive -I want to see you dead because you have made ​​my life like hell… And perhaps the poor man has nothing to do with it, but he is being manipulated: - ... Maybe she is right… Perhaps I have misbehaved unfairly. Have I stopped her projects with my thinking? And then the person becomes the victim: - Of course, she was right. Why I acted like that? I'm not a good husband… Then we learn ... Manuel: But his self-esteem is very low. Jorge Olguin: First, it’s good to have high self-esteem, it’s not good to overwhelm it with the role of ego, because the role of ego is also that narcissistic role that puts the self-esteem very high, but it's a “false” self-esteem, it’s narcissistic, pedantic, but the pedantic person, in spite of having real self-esteem, demands the approval from others. The pedantic person NEEDS to be seen in his pose over a pedestal: -Ah! I did this. I need you to realize that, I need you to see me! On the other hand, the one who has his self-esteem high, but really high inside himself, does not care if the other believes him or not, or if the other knows he’s important or not. He does not seek approval from others: - If you agree with me or not, it’s the same to me, Perfect! I believe in myself, it doesn’t matter if the other believes me or not. That's the difference between self-centeredness and self-esteem, a self-centered person needs the approval from others, everything rounds about himself: "ME, ME, ME ," but occasionally, he stops saying ME, to peer sideways and see who is watching him, if nobody is watching him he gets off the pedestal, because he needs the approval from others, then that is also a karmic lesson, learn not to require the approval from others, I can require personal love, which is good with balance, I can require that my family loves me, my kids love me, because it is reciprocal love from my partner, I can love my children, and it’s not bad that I need love from them too because I love them and I love my family, but that does mean to seek approval from others. Seeking the approval from others means to go out to have a drink and think: - Am I fine with my glasses?  Will she be watching while I sip my drink?  Will I clean my lips properly with the napkin?  Will she like my clothes? Then we are sick, because we live ... Manuel: ... seeking the approval from the other in everything we do. Jorge Olguin: Exactly, and that is fictitious, because that does not work, it makes us unhappy and that's totally a karma to learn, because surely we carry some karma from a past life where we did not pay attention to anyone and in this life we are seeking the approval from others, when we stop requiring from the other, we don’t have to stop interacting with the other - when I speak about requiring from the other, I'm talking about the sense of wanting to show off right? As Jesus said : " Woe to those who tear their clothes apart" saying : -Oh! Behold these religious people who worship God To be noticed or… - Look how many coins I have given And they shout louder with speakers, at that time there were no speakers…he he Manuel: It was something like that Jorge Olguin: Of course, that’s why the Master said: "Do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing" One has to be very detached from ego in order not to make himself notice, not even in the smallest things, very detached from ego! And somehow all is related to karma. Karma is like a giant spider web where there are many points connected and karmic lessons to learn, it’s a lifelong task, I do not know if I will learn the last karmic lesson. Manuel: Yes, it’s not so simple after going through a particular experience; it’s not easy for that person to know that effective learning; that is to know if was valuable. Jorge Olguin: First of all we have to become strong for our physical and psychical safety, and second we can help others, but we cannot help anyone if we are lying on the ground whining about what happened to us, there is no karmic lesson to learn in that case. We should never have regrets. Let's see... if I had an issue, fraud, theft, loving deception or whatever, of course I'm going to regret it, but I will not make a building on that event, I will act accordingly, I will seek to respect myself a little more, surely I will not be able to reverse that deception or fraud, in many cases it is very difficult to reverse that, or that separation, but at least I will learn to respect myself and on the base of respect I will build the building, not on the base of regret, I am not saying that I won’t regret it , because if I did not suffer pain from an invasive fact, I would be crazy! Obviously that I’m going to have pain, but I will not build on the pain, I will build on my respect and in the long run, coldly and in a detached way I will say: -It's not my problem; it’s a problem for the other, who could not appreciate me. Let’s start from that base, then we will learn the karmic lessons, finally, we are not infallible, there is another saying that says: "You cannot win them all" This means that I can be very meticulous and suddenly I can display up to a virus, which is tiny and a Tyrannosaurus Rex passes by and I do not see it, because I am seeing only the virus, it’s a metaphor, but you can understand what I mean.